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home : opinion : opinion April 28, 2016


4/26/2013 6:00:00 AM
Kingman letters: This logic does not compute

Twenty dead babies make a case to ban guns but 160,000 dead babies (2012) doesn't make a case to ban late term/partial birth abortions ...

Daniel Snelling

Kingman


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Reader Comments

Posted: Tuesday, April 30, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee Speaking

@ansons nephew

"1.4% figure backs that up."

So let me get this straight. 1.4% of 160k abortions being late term...AKA murder, is fine. On the other hand you leftists will screech that even a single gun death calls for outlawing guns. Don't challange me on that last line AN, as I will be delighted to provide you with links to leftists saying that if you insist.

"Oh wait I covered that last week about the Christians that have so far killed two of their children because they wanted to pray for them to get well instead of going to a doctor. Sorry, almost forgot about the Christian child killers."

And of course, what leftist athiest can resist bashing all Christians, even though (I would guess) 99.9% of Christians would like to see those two parents rot in prison forever.

Yep, who needs the self-proclaimed athiest Lori Hyphenated any more when we have you AN. Glad to see you also need to mock Christianity to cover for your own doubts and make yourself feel better.

It is simple AN, you dodge legitimate questions by claiming that any child in the womb, or aborted and alive, is not yet a human being.

As always, your leftist/athiest views make me......

LOL


Posted: Tuesday, April 30, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee Speaking

@ansons nephew

"Killing children is terrible and I feel we both agree with that."

Nice way to dodge. As long as you do not call the unborn "children" they are fair game. Someone who regards the unborn as just a "parasite" does not feel that killing children is "terrible". I am glad you are not sitting on Gosnell's jury. If you were he would likely walk free.

So how about this for a simple enough question, AN. If a late term abortion results in a child who can survive outside of the womb, is still the womans choice as to wether or not it can live?


Posted: Monday, April 29, 2013
Article comment by: the conservative

@Anson
Since you continue to dodge the question, you are guilty of exactly what you accuse other of since it is clear that you are a hypocrite you opinion is of no consequence. Please keep you opinion to yourself as you cannot seem to defend it with logic, reason or science.


Posted: Monday, April 29, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

The Con

“I answered your question, I expect an answer to my question, not a dodge.”

I acknowledged your rather curious response to my question.

As to “a dodge” I have no idea what you are talking about. You posted about people murdering their children, specifically, “if a parent has the right to murder their child out of inconvenience…” And my response was to address the only recent case of parents killing their children that I am currently aware of (except for the Bullhead City Man who was charged last week in the killing of his infant son in 2010), being the two Christians who have killed two of their children by denying them medical treatment.

Now how that can considered as “a dodge” I have no idea. Killing children is terrible and I feel we both agree with that.


Posted: Monday, April 29, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

Jeffie

“As far as a woman being punished for an illegal abortion that kills a life. The same punishment should apply to her as a a person committing murder with a gun or whatever. Unless the abortion was needed to save the woman's life.”

Okay, I see an exception here – which flies in the face of what many of the Teabaggers and other righties demand. And I do have a problem with your contention of “kills a life” since – according to the Bible – God breathes life into a being, indicating the fetus is not “alive.” And there is of course the question of exact punishment since simply saying “committing murder” leaves a lot of leeway as to punishment.

Thank you for the input and I will point out that we now have 1) Assassination of the doctor with no punishment for the woman, 2) Forced government sterilization of the woman, and 3) Charge the woman with murder with no punishment specified.


Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2013
Article comment by: the conservative

@Anson
I answered your question, I expect an answer to my question, not a dodge. Why can someone be trusted decide to end an innocent life out of convenience one moment and not another. I'm not necessarily arguing against abortion, just against the arbitrary limits currently imposed. Either as a parent you can decide to murder your children, or you cannot age shouldn't be a factor as there is no science that supports that a child brought into the world causes less damage to its mothers livelyhood/health/life on average than an unborn child.


Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

Roy Boy

“The news media is not reporting this as it may give abortion a bad name. Check it out.”

Where have you been? Ms Athens and her followers have spewed this garbage for two week now and it is pure nonsense. The trial has been reported in every media imaginable and covers the so-called “liberal” media right through to the lying FAUX News.


Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

The Con

“Permanent sterility, to answer your question for any non-life threatening abortion.”

Okay, thank you. So far we have assignation of the person performing the abortion (FLS) and sterilization of the woman. Interesting.

“Now for a question pro-death people do not answer What qualifies someone to be judge, jury and executioner of another being one instant vs any other instant if a parent has the right to murder their child out of inconvenience…”

Uhh, who is “murdering their child?” Oh wait I covered that last week about the Christians that have so far killed two of their children because they wanted to pray for them to get well instead of going to a doctor. Sorry, almost forgot about the Christian child killers.


Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

Ricky

“As usual, only mockery and no substantial evidance to rebuttle the claim.”

what is there to rebut? The poster said, “but 160,000 dead babies (2012) doesn't make a case to ban late term/partial birth abortions ...” claming 160,000 late term/partial birth abortions were performed in 2012. All I did was extrapolate the math.

In 2003, from data collected in those areas that sufficiently reported gestational age,
it was found that 6.2% of abortions were conducted between 13 and 15
weeks, 4.2% between 16 and 20 weeks, and 1.4% at or after 21 weeks.

Thank you for proving my point – however using 10 year old data is kinda strange. And I am curious as to why your figures come nowhere near 100% - missing the point by nearly 88%. My point was that late term/partial birth abortions are allowed in only rare cases and your 1.4% figure backs that up. And BTW “late Term” as defined in the Journal of the American Medical Association is the 27th week of gestation or later.


Posted: Saturday, April 27, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

Ms Athens

“Obama believes in late term abortions and has voted to not even give a child who lives through an abortion any care.”

Wrong as it has been every single time you have posted it. At issue was an Illinois bill put forth by the anti-choice-cases that duplicated an existing bill. Obama – and the majority of the Illinois legislature - saw no reason to pass a bill that mirrored one all ready in effect. Why do you post this nonsense - again and again?

“Obama has stated you must go by the intent of the Mother.”

And you do not agree with following the medical decisions of an individual? And yet you rave on here day in and day out about keeping government out of our health care decisions. Honestly, you must pick a side and stick with it, otherwise you look like … well, you know.

“I am starting to see people tired of obama and the strife in our country under his administration.”

Actually that is not correct as more and more of the American people support the actions of the president.


Posted: Saturday, April 27, 2013
Article comment by: Jeff Stoneberger

@Anson's Nephew...

Don't like guns, don't buy one. But when it comes to abortion, we aren't talking about an inanimate object, we are talking about a life.

As far as a woman being punished for an illegal abortion that kills a life. The same punishment should apply to her as a a person committing murder with a gun or whatever. Unless the abortion was needed to save the woman's life.


Posted: Saturday, April 27, 2013
Article comment by: anonymous anonymous

On line folks fall into two categories, the habitual whiners, criers who whine and cry 24/7 about everything from the weather to whose in the white house! Now they whine about abortion which has been going on since the first woman aborted a unwanted baby thousands of years ago, as if its something new, something unheard of, as a moderate democrat who is pro-2nd amendment, anti-abortion with a catch, no need for laws to handle sinners who violate gods laws or mans law of thou shalt not kill in the end Jesus is sitting at them pearly gates no one gets past him for murder whether it be a unborn baby, adult, etc., if one does not experience guilt one will never repent of anything hence that final destination for all eternity in the lake of fire, eternity is a long time to pay for arrogance and lack of guilt!

Posted: Saturday, April 27, 2013
Article comment by: Roy Leggett

If you want to see what happens in an abortion clinic go on line and check out the trial of Dr. Kermit Gosnell, in Chicago IL. It will make you sick at your stomach. He is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder (seven babies), one count of third-degree murder of a mother, as well as infanticide, conspiracy, abortion at 24 or more weeks, abuse of a corpse. He cut the babies feet off and kept them in jars. The news media is not reporting this as it may give abortion a bad name. Check it out.


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Marla Kiriakidis

I don't tell you what religion you must follow. I don't force you to go to a certain church. I don't force you to marry or to remain single. I don't tell you where to live or how. So what gives you the "right" to force your religious beliefs on me? Because that's what your doing.

So if Arizona made abortions illegal, but Nevada didn't, how would you stop women from going to Vegas? Would you make doctors report all pregnant women? Pharmacies take ID from all women wanting test kits? Will you set up a checkpoint at the state border to check all women? And if a woman does get an abortion, how would you punish her? You say its murder, so will you sentence her to death? Or life in prison? Can I expect a answer from you?

When you get pregnant, then you will have a say. NO ONE has a "right" to tell me what to do to MY body. Especially someone that will NEVER BE PREGNANT! If you so worried about children then help the ones that need it. Become a foster parent, volunteer at schools, give some food to the food bank. Why is it that those that are against abortion are also against giving the mother any kind of help with raising the child?


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: the conservative

@Anson
Permanent sterility, to answer your question for any non-life threatening abortion. Now for a question pro-death people do not answer What qualifies someone to be judge, jury and executioner of another being one instant vs any other instant if a parent has the right to murder their child out of inconvenience why is it all the sudden illegal to murder that same child later in life for the same reason?


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Rick O'Shea

"This figure that seems to bounce around from the righties is interesting. What it would indicate that late term abortions are being performed at the rate of 439 a day, every single day of the year or over 18 an hour, 24 hours a day".

As usual, only mockery and no substantial evidance to rebuttle the claim.

 "And of course everyone knows (well, almost everyone) that except in rare cases late term partial birth abortions are illegal.

In 2003, from data collected in those areas that sufficiently reported gestational age,
it was found that 6.2% of abortions were conducted between 13 and 15
weeks, 4.2% between 16 and 20 weeks, and 1.4% at or after 21 weeks.

"What punishment would you mandate for a woman who has an abortion? Because no matter what the nattering busybodies do abortions will continue".

I say, what punishment is apropriate for people that support socialism, redistribution, gay rights and support a president that supports many acts that are, and will, take money out of your pocket to be given to the underachievers, what would be an appropriate sentence for these liberal people.


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Uncle Anson

At what point does life begin and at what point does life end? Is it an issue for legislation? Is it an issue for legal debate? is it an issue for moral debate? What if you had been aborted? This, to me, is a moral issue and I am against abortion, however, it boils down to a simple matter of consequences, not choice over a baby or no baby. Let me clarify this for those that are already incensed over my words. In every species there is an instinct for reproduction. Is it different for our species ? As a matter of fact it is. Our species has an advanced ability to make judgements and to control our actions. As a so called intelligent species, we are able to analyze the possible results of our actions and adjust to situations. A consequence of sex ithrough an act of reproduction is pregnancy. I said consequence. Do you need sex to survive? No. But the species does. But it has consequences from pregnancy to lethal disease. Perhaps it is a matter of minding your own business but I for one do not recognize anyone's so called rights to exercise and practice ignorance of consequences. If pregnancy is an undesirable consequence to you do not get pregnant. It is pretty simple. Live with the consequences of you actions whether it is pregnancy or anything else that results from a bad decision. Remember it ain't always just about you. Have a nice day




Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Fox Hound:

It was once legal to own slaves. Did that make it right?

JL said: >>I have a question.... if a pregnant woman dies as a result of someone smashing into her with their car as she is driving to an abortion clinic to abort her baby, the news states two lives are lost. But if she made it to the abortion clinic and aborts her baby and then gets hit after she aborts the baby, they state just one life is lost.<<<

Yes, it is crazy but gets even crazier. Obama believes in late term abortions and has voted to not even give a child who lives through an abortion any care. His reason? Because given care, that baby might live and the Mother's intent by being there and having an abortion was to kill the child. So you would be thwarting the Mother's intent.

And what do we call that? Infanticide would be the correct term. Obama has stated you must go by the intent of the Mother. Recently a Planned Parenthood representative on a TV panel was asked that exact question. What does PP think about a case like that. She answered exactly like obama - it would have to be the wish of the mother that was followed.

I am starting to see people tired of obama and the strife in our country under his administration.


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: thinking about it

No matter if a late term abortion is legal or illegal, it is still the killing of an infant. Oh, excuse me, a fetus.

Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: J L

You got it Mr. Snelling.

I have a question.... if a pregnant woman dies as a result of someone smashing into her with their car as she is driving to an abortion clinic to abort her baby, the news states two lives are lost. But if she made it to the abortion clinic and aborts her baby and then gets hit after she aborts the baby, they state just one life is lost. Doesn't make any sense at all. Everything is twisted, especially abortion doctors' heads.


Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: desert dweller

Amen!

Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Rick O'Shea

That seems to be the rationale for the tax & spenders, and the lefties say conservatives are crazy.

Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: The Fox Hound

Only one little difference the babies who died by the hands of a mad man in Conn. where already born. Abortion is legal what part of that do you not understand. A women has the right to choose its the law get over it.

Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Twenty dead babies make a case to ban guns but 160,000 dead babies (2012) doesn't make a case to ban late term/partial birth abortions ...”

This figure that seems to bounce around from the righties is interesting. What it would indicate that late term abortions are being performed at the rate of 439 a day, every single day of the year or over 18 an hour, 24 hours a day.

And of course everyone knows (well, almost everyone) that except in rare cases late term partial birth abortions are illegal.

And of course – Don’t like abortions, don’t have one. In a ll other cases mind your own business.

And now I will offer you the chance to answer the question the righties keep running from – What punishment would you mandate for a woman who has an abortion? Because no matter what the nattering busybodies do abortions will continue.




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