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home : opinion : letters May 24, 2016


1/9/2014 6:00:00 AM
Letter: Liberalism is not socialism

Let's get some things straight - right out of the dictionary.

Liberalism: a) belief in the value of social and political change in order to achieve progress. b) a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market and the gold standard. c) a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically: such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender or class). Reference: Merriam-Webster.com.

Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. Reference: Merriam-Webster.com.

Repeated assertions by commentators, famous or unknown, or slanderous assertions by anyone just giving "their opinion" does not make it true. Words have meanings and their meanings shape people's beliefs, actions and politics.

I am proud to be a liberal both in politics and in religion. Within my political party of choice I further align myself with the progressive Democrats. Change is the key word. Secondly, concern for the poor. Concern for the horrendous inequities in the economy and politics.

Any attempt to make liberals into socialists either displays ignorance or is simply scurrilous.

Liberals abhor socialism and promote capitalism. However, as the popes have reminded us since Pope Leo Xlll, capitalism unfettered, unregulated, can lead to evil.

Do I believe that conservatives or Republicans are evil? Certainly not, but the differences do invite lively debate as long as the definitions are clear and the discussion remains respectful of each other's ideology.

Leonard Walker

Kingman


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Reader Comments

Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2014
Article comment by: Doing Research

@Cit Woody

See, the thing about guns is that not owning one does not prevent you from being shot by one.

No one comes around a corner and says "Give you your wallet or I'll take you into a room, make you fill out a bunch of paperwork, and give you an abortion!"

Same goes for car accidents. Pedestrians get hit all the time. "Don't want to be in a car accident? Don't buy a car!" See what I mean?

Maybe we should expand this by telling members of the armed forces that if they don't buy IEDs in Iraq then they can't be harmed by them!

Your logic makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine, my friend.


Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2014
Article comment by: Nikki B

Unfortunately the abortion argument, while valid in the sense of morality, is invalid in the political arena. It's a distraction issue.

No 1 person's morality should legislate another's actions. No 10 persons, or 100 persons or 1000 persons, etc.

So although some may not like it, abortion is here to stay and can't be legislated away. Even when the Republicans controlled the Executive and Legislative branches, it didn't get repealed. So what does that tell you? It should tell you that the abortion football is a distraction used by both parties. They're not going to do anything about it, so it should be a non issue.

An individual's choice to have an abortion does not infringe upon your rights, therefore it should not be illegal.

The argument is really, "When does the unborn child have rights?"

It is at THAT point that abortion becomes illegal. Currently, I believe the states legislate that point at different numbers of weeks in utero.

My opinion is that the rights of a human begins when brain activity begins.

If we can legally terminate life support for brain dead individuals, then we can legally terminate the unborn before brain activity begins.

When brain activity is present, it's murder. That's not a moral argument, that's consistency within the law.


Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2014
Article comment by: Karel Peckar

Your definition of Socialism is outdated and that of the now defunct USSR. Today's Socialism as practiced in the European Union is quite different. It is this version (Euro-Socialism) that far left persons adhere to.

Euro-Socialism does not have a collective or own manufacturing. Man Euro-Socialism countries have health system superior to ours.


Posted: Monday, January 20, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Bob Moore aka Anson's Nephew …Remember - don't like guns, don't buy one. In all other cases mind your own business.”

I have no idea what you are attempting to say. I own many weapons and – although denigrated here for doing so – hold multiple CWPs and rarely go out unarmed and support the right of every American to be armed.

What your ridiculous statement has to do with interfering with the right of a woman to make a personal and private decision to undergo a legal medical decision is...well, incongruous at best.


Posted: Monday, January 20, 2014
Article comment by: Citizen Woody

Bob Moore aka Anson's Nephew

"Remember – don’t like abortion, don’t have on, in all other cases mind your own business."

Remember - don't like guns, don't buy one. In all other cases mind your own business.



Posted: Monday, January 20, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Bobber. You continue to post nonsense.”

Only a rightie would consider the posting of facts to be “nonsense.”

“You degrade peoples opinion.”

Nope, I’ve never done that.

“Falsely call people bigots, liars and racists.”

I call people out when they post lies, bigoted statements and racist comments. Simple as that.

“Tell people that theyre wrong simply because you ‘say so’.”

Nope, don’t do that either. I point out the facts – example, birther goofiness and other such nonsense.

“Then you tell people to do certain things, then do the exact opposite yourself.”

No, I do not.

“Its not a difficult task to ‘get you’ as you say.”

Well, in the past four years you “got me” once. Again, congratulations.

“Just pointing out a simple fact.”

1) it is not a fact and 2) it was a very “simple” comment. Congratulations.

What has always made me curious is why my posting the truth so bothers you and yet you never go after the incessant prevaricators who appear here regularly? Why is that?


Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014
Article comment by: Tj Denton

Bobber.

You continue to post nonsense. Degrade peoples opinion. Falsely call people bigots, liars and racists. Tell people that theyre wrong simply because you "say" so. Mock peoples viewpoints and declare peoples opinions incorrect. Then you tell people to do certain things, then do the exact opposite yourself. Its not a difficult task to "get you" as you say. Its really quite simple when looking through a lens of common sense. So no congrats necessary. Just pointing out a simple fact.


Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Thats telling someone to do something!!”

Well, you got me! Congratulations.


Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014
Article comment by: Tj Denton

""As always – don’t like abortion, don’t have one. In all other cases mind your own business. ""

Thats telling someone to do something!! From the guy who says hes never told anyone to do anything. Not makin too much sense bud


Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Bob Moore: The oddest thing and this is where you have to TRY to understand.”

What I fully understand and you seem incapable of comprehending is that a woman’s personal and private decision to undergo a legal medical procedure is none of your business – period.

And still you have not told us how a woman making a personal and private decision to undergo a legal medical procedure directly impacts your life? When may we expect that answer?

As always – don’t like abortion, don’t have one. In all other cases mind your own business.


Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Bob Moore:

The oddest thing and this is where you have to TRY to understand.

Before this legal medical procedure you keep speaking about happens, there are two human hearts beating. When the procedure is over, there is only one.

Have you ever noticed, when you have your tonsils or a kidney taken out, there is never a second heartbeat happening.

Again, blab on with your lies until hell freezes over but there will always be one beating heart stopped with every abortion performed.


Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014
Article comment by: Tj Denton

What most of you fail to realize is that clinton was far more conservative than GWB. GWB and obama are the SAME president!! They have and had the same policies, extreme waste of money and stupidity. The reason they are such horrible presidents...THEYRE LIBERALS!! Look at the three widely argued worst presidents of all time. obama, gwb and carter...all liberals. See the trend here??

Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014
Article comment by: Oh Ya

" "Who Broke the Baby" immediately fell into my hands"

Holy Cow Batman, you're lucky it didn't strike you in the head. I've heard of "raining cat's and dog's", but books, that's a new one. Did you check with the local airport to see who may have lost it while flying over Kingman?


Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Bob Moore: You can call murdering unborn children a legal medical procedure until hell freezes over…”

And I will, because it is, despite your hyperbolic nonsense.

“I'm apparently smarter than you.”

From your myriad of comments over the past six years where untruths outweigh facts I must say – no, you are not.

“You are obviously too scared to admit your egregious mistake.”

I have not made a mistake. I have pointed out that women making a personal and private decision to undergo a legal medical procedure do not need to be harassed by nattering busybodies. Tell me where I have made a mistake in pointing out the right of an individual to undergo a legal medical procedure.

And you have yet to address how a woman making a personal and private decision to undergo a legal medical procedure directly affects your life.

Remember – don’t like abortion, don’t have on, in all other cases mind your own business.


Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014
Article comment by: good for a Laugh

JC - just how old is your daughter?

Shorter memories than President Reagan at the end of his life, are the memories of those who want a "truly conservative president". Reagan, daddy Bush and Baby Bush brought more economic decline to our nation than any democrat. It took President Clinton and President Obama to bring back prosperity and growth. Greed and wealth of a very few is not an indicator of economic prosperity. But who am I kidding. Facts don't seem to matter .


Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Bob Moore:

You can call murdering unborn children a legal medical procedure until hell freezes over but any way you cut it, it's murdering another human being.

I'm apparently smarter than you. Many years ago, not thinking it through and being very busy with my own young children and work, I had been told an unborn child was nothing more than a blob.

A fellow Christian questioned my thinking so I asked God to show me the truth. "Who Broke the Baby" immediately fell into my hands, the story of a young child who, when accidently seeing a picture of an aborted baby, said "who broke the baby". That child knew what you pro-aborts selfishly refuse to face.

You cannot see a dismembered child after an abortion, in five or more pieces laying on a table so they make sure they didn't leave an arm or leg inside the woman and still call it a "medical procedure". No, it's a dead baby.

As we say, having an abortion doesn't make you unpregnant, it makes you the Mother of a dead baby. You are obviously too scared to admit your egregious mistake.


Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014
Article comment by: Doubling Down

"Until we get a truly conservative President, Senate, and Congress our country will continue its slow decline"

This is kind of funny, in a way. Through the whole Clinton administration, while the economy was doing great, Republicans insisted that we wouldn't do REALLY well until we got a conservative president to go along with the Senate and House which were already Republican.

Then they got their wish and we got eight years of a Republican president along with a Republican Congress for most of that time --- and they gave us the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression. So now Republicans are saying that Bush just wasn't conservative enough, and that what we need is a TRULY conservative president. In other words, kind of like Bush in overdrive. I'm not sure if we're quite ready for that.


Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Article comment by: Molon Labe

In other news, it was so cold in many parts of the country, liberals and progressives were seen putting their hands in their OWN pockets. A truly rare occurrence indeed!

Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Article comment by: Molon Labe

Well, after 5 years of progressive liberalism, only someone completely deluded would believe we are going in the right direction.

Until we get a truly conservative President, Senate, and Congress our country will continue its slow decline which has sped up considerably in the last agonizing 5 years. At least more of the population has woken up to what liberalism truly is and it isn't the American way in the slightest.

I'm not even sure we can handle another 3 years of this disaster of a Presidency with its activist Administration and lawless and corrupt ways.


Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Article comment by: T C

I'm liberal but to a degree,
I think everybody ought to be free.
But if you think I'm going to let Fidel
Castro move in next door and marry my daughter,
You must be crazy! I wouldn't do it for all the farms in Cuba.


Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Article comment by: Capt. Nice

Roger, how do you educate liberals when they already know everything there is to know? Just ask A.N.,Lori,TJ,TPK and the rest of the misguided ones!
Ask anyone of them if they love America and they will tell you how much better it could be if only conservatives would give in or die!
These next three years with Obama will be the longest three years of our lives, as he has more changes coming and if it does not start a war, I will be surprised, and I'm talking about a war among Americans not the rest of the world who hate us more than ever since he took the helm...
As far as being liars, that is in their play book and think it is the right thing to do for the good of the people.....ask one and they will tell you I'm correct if they don't, they are liars.


Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Article comment by: Roy Leggett

At the age of 14 I started working in a service station from 3 to 11 PM. I attended school, with straight A's, Afterr graduating at age 17, I entered the military. After 36 years I retired and my wife retired 3 years later. We draw Social Security, which we paid into for all our lives, and retirement, so nothing is given to us. I worked for what I have and do not want what anyone else has worked for. It seems that in todays world the way people want it is, You work and I will set on my butt, but I want half of what you worked hard to get, without lifting a finger. It's like the woman in Florida. She has 15 kids and was kicked out of her home. Now she says "Somebody needs to pay for my kids and the state refuses." She has no job, 15 kids and expects the working class to pay and support her and her kids. How stupid can you get? You want money, get off your butt and TRY WORKING FOR IT. Don't expect every one else to work and support you..

Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014
Article comment by: R H

"Liberal" is also supposed to mean 'open-minded' but we all know that is a crock. When you promote SOCIALIST policy , you can call yourself anything you want ...but you're still a socialist . Taking something from ME to pay for YOUR good intentions is about as socialistic as it gets . That is NOT charity , that is STILL theft .
The More You Know ! )


Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014
Article comment by: Doing Research

Leonard - if actual definitions mattered, this wouldn't be a point of controversy.

...instead displayed before us is a veritable potpourri of “thoughts” posted by individuals so cajoled with anxiety over daily life that their emotional state, not rational thought, governs their path . If a majority of the those submitting comments took a moment to actually completely read your letter, it would shock me to the very fiber of my being. The title alone is sufficient to involuntarily cause these droll automatons to regurgitate the latest Fox News talking points verbatum.

One person actually suggests that dictionaries are not good sources of definitions for words like this because they don’t fit what he believes! Wishful thinking is apparently all one needs in life to make oneself right and all others wrong!

Though, I will say that they can read – thanks to the government. However, in this corner of the internet I used my big words, so we can engage in discourse and those same droll automatons may never experience a glimmer of cognition as to the sense of my message to you.

Now if we could just get them to read AND practice critical thinking skills – then we’d have something, wouldn’t we?


Posted: Friday, January 10, 2014
Article comment by: Trained observer

Despite a great explanation, you will never get many of the people here to understand this. They have some kind of vested interest in keeping people ignorant, whether that is the dumbing down of the educational system, reinforcing provincialism or just doing things as they have always done. This backward and defensive thinking is why the US is behind test scores for math and science compared to other countries and why the quality of life in the US continues to decline. It's obvious in Kingman that people don't want progress of any kind because they find it scary.


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