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home : opinion : opinion May 24, 2016


5/11/2014 6:00:00 AM
Editorial: From on high: Bible study and fare chicanery

Alan Choate
News Editor


Hobby Lobby president Steve Green was back in the news last week after he convinced the Mustang School District in Oklahoma to adopt curriculum for a Bible class developed by the Green Scholars Initiative, which consists of researchers for The Green Collection, his family's huge collection of biblical texts and artifacts.

This is not automatically constitutionally suspect. The class will be an elective, and student interest is apparently high. What's more, teaching the Bible in a public school can thread that First Amendment, separation-of-church-and-state needle - but that doesn't appear to be Green's goal.

Here's what he said when he announced plans for the course to the National Bible Association: "This nation is in danger because of its ignorance of what God has taught. There are lessons from the past that we can learn from, the dangers of ignorance of this book. We need to know it, and if we don't know it, our future is going to be very scary."

Those are the words of someone who wants converts, not students. We're all free to believe what we believe, but here's the key point: We're not supposed to use government institutions, such as schools, to preach a certain religious viewpoint. That's the standard his Bible class has to meet.

OK: Reviewing the documented historical and archeological record and matching that with what's presented in the Bible.

Not OK: Teaching that the Great Flood depicted in Noah's story created the Grand Canyon.

OK: Learning about the spread of Christianity, the influence of the early church, and comparing and contrasting its tenets with other world religions.

Not OK: Using public resources to proselytize on behalf of Christianity and teach that it is the one true religion.

Hopefully, the Mustang School District's leaders did their due diligence. If not, they're in for a costly court fight that they'll lose, and it could've been avoided.

•••

Airlines want Congress to overturn a law that requires published airfares to include all taxes and fees - and they're succeeding, despite the fact that the repeal is not in the public interest.

Last month, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee approved a bill that would let airlines return to a previous practice - heavily advertising base fares while masking the actual price to the customer as long as possible.

The argument in favor of the bill is hogwash. The airlines contend that having to display the full fare up front "hides" taxes in the price of the ticket, but that's simply not true. Every reservation I've made breaks the fare down into costs for the flight and for taxes and fees, so nothing is hidden.

Also of concern are the tactics: It's called the "Transparent Airfares Act," even though it makes airfares less transparent, and so far it's progressed without hearings or debate.

Here's an idea, airlines: Be direct about what a flight costs, and toss out the bait-and-switch tactics and surprise fees that madden travelers. You'll be rewarded with repeat business.


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Reader Comments

Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014
Article comment by: Another Thought

"Merriam has two (now) children with her American Christian husband which makes their children AMERICAN!"

And those "American" children are not the issue, as rotten as it is, she is the "NON-AMERICAN" that you want "AMERICANS" to save from another countries laws. We'd be all over the world if we did that!


Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

Merriam has two (now) children with her American Christian husband which makes their children AMERICAN!
While OB was happy to send our people to Nigeria to help in rescue of Nigerian non- Americans, He's just as happy to ignore the plights of Christian Americans!
How is that right??

There are petitions online you can sign and as the news outlets are keeping their pressure on by reporting on this circumstance and other Americans sign these petitions it becomes MORE pressure on John Kerry @ state department and others to get Merriam AND HER CHILDREN out of that god awful prison!!

It doesn't take but few minutes of YOUR time to sign a petition for humanitarian rights to be enforced.

Some of you blindly refuse to see what all in this country may well be faced with when these nut case Islamist raise up on our soil try to convert everyone to Islam Sharia law and start carrying out their Brutal acts against those of who do not believe in their ideology!!


Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2014
Article comment by: Another Thought

"Meriam is married to an American who is Christian as is Meriam, this means she is Sudanese Not Muslim but, because she was born and raised in Sudan"

I don't get your point, are you saying that the US should run to the aid of every foreigner overseas that is married to an American? Or do you mean we should run to the aid of every foreign Christian? Isn't that what Putin is doing, running to aid all the Russian speakers?


Posted: Sunday, June 1, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

I want to thank you PL for your response to Happy Atheist on behalf of Linda and myself.
Also for your acknowledgement of life traumas, the survival of which I give God the praise and glory for strength and perseverance coming through all with my childlike faith.
I can look back @ all the times God is with me, one in particular is when @ age 16 my Mom put me on a bus in Phoenix, Az. and sent me to Jacksonville, Fl. to spend the summer with my 5 yrs. older than me sister and her husband. Three days travel and I was not an ugly 16 yr. old! Having gotten so tired of bus depots, I took a walk in wee hours of morn. in in Mobile, Al. with a guy who'd bugged me for miles on end to have dinner, breakfast, lunch and I'd managed to keep him from sitting by me forever. Walking back into that depot the driver gave him hell and chewed me out good. By the grace and love of God he was actually a decent human being that man and I ended up safe.
Spending the entire summer in Fl. began my destination to becoming the wife of law enforcement officer as I dated an Air Force police officer, he's probably the one I should've married, was suppose to till I got home and realized I was way toooo young for that. But he was a sweetheart.
Majority guys I dated became law enforcement.


Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

Another Thought,
Meiam Ibraham has given birth to her baby.
What does this have to do with the U.S.?
First, Meriam is married to an American who is Christian as is Meriam, this means she is Sudanese Not Muslim but, because she was born and raised in Sudan, the Muslim Sudan men believe they have the right to force her into the Muslim Islam belief system.

Never before 9-11 did we give thought nor much attention to these middle east, African and Asian countries and their warped beliefs and the practice of Muslim lslam Sharia, All are one and same.
Since 9-11 more Muslim faithed people have come to this country and majority want to practice such here.
There have been cases of family "honor beatings, attempted murder and murder".
That's what other countries belief systems have to do with America in today's reality.

I can't even imagine the horror of what Meiam Ibraham is facing.


Posted: Friday, May 23, 2014
Article comment by: Oh Ya

"Again, what religion was there before that?"

and again, where is your proof of a "God", and I'm still waiting on a response as to where the Polish death camps were at.


Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014
Article comment by: Another Thought

Gees, do you really not care what is happening right here and do you approve of this Islam Sharia practice?

What laws other countries have is none of our business nor should it be. When will America realize that other people believe different things and for us to be telling them otherwise is not our place. It would be nice if America could convert every country to Christianity, for some of you I mean.


Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014
Article comment by: pl .....

Feeling a need to further address Ms. Athens' remarks --- I had limited my criticism of Christian culture to "some key areas of human need". To this, Ms. Athens inexplicably rambles that biblical prophecies are coming true because of Christianity. I wasn't talking about biblical prophecies, whose fulfilments nowadays are better explained in terms of monstrous banking interests and their victims' (nations' and empires') risings and fallings. I was talking about such phenomenae as a person entering a church, only to find an abundance of talk followed by no demonstrable concern for a person's life. That was my experience. It was no effort at all to connect that to the larger national picture, where the church constantly ignores policies which destroy our lives - figuratively and literally. Tell you what, Ms. Athens - show me just one pastor who can shut that hole in their face long enough to take a little trip with me at 3 A.M. for a mug of fine English tea, where I will inform him about what has really taken place all around his church culture.

Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

The husband of Mariam Ibraham in Sudan is an American and Christian. The Muslim father of Mariam abandoned her family when she was a young child and her mother being Christian raised Mariam as such.
These people in the middle east are nuts!
As Linda stated Mariam was convicted of adultery for marrying outside of Muslim faith, thence the 100 lashes next comes her hanging due to convicted of apostasy, how can that all be when she was Never Muslim to start with.
Her husband has attempted to get the Sec. of State involved to no avail.
I intend to start making phone calls tomorrow to DC. If the Muslims, especially the men? in this country would stand up and protest this behavior it would stop but they won't because this treatment they believe should be put upon ALL women.
Gees, do you really not care what is happening right here and do you approve of this Islam Sharia practice? If pushed, would you stand up to protect the American women or turn other cheek?


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: pl .....

@Linda Athens.....I do realize - painfully - that it is not possible to comment comprehensively upon a serious subject in a brief posting here. There always seems to be angles and perspectives which cannot be included. I wish that I could agree with you about a universal benefit to church attendance. Take care.

Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Nancy Jane

The sin is not living before it ends. Return to living intuitively, in ONENESS with all life.

Is it because I can't see, or is it because I'm not looking?


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Tj Denton

Bobber, I honestly don't care whether you believe me or not, but those are the facts and I informed you of them. As for your statement, im not exactly sure how my personal opinions have anything to do with my schooling and test scores. I mean the two things are entirely separate from each other and yet you are trying to use one to disprove another and it doesnt make any sense. "Defer the actual question and issue and just attack something else".

Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Happy Atheist:

Christianity doesn't force you to do anything as one religion does and as the young 8 mo pregnant woman, facing flogging and hanging soon, has to face because she refuses to renounce her Christianity and embrace another religion, one she has never been incidentally.

But the First Amendment guarantees that Christianity has a right to exist and as it happens, our country was founded on it which is the very reason we have all the freedoms we do.

You are free to stay an atheist forever. Our government will neither incarcerate you, flog you, hang you or behead you if you shun Christianity. It's a complete free gift and completely your choice. You will not be forced to put an ammo laden vest on yourself or your child and sent anywhere to explode a group of innocent people.

So atheist away and best wishes to you. Unknown to you (and I could write an endless list), there are things you enjoy daily in every area, in every way that come straight from our Christian founding. And you are unaware of that but that is also fine.

As God said, "The same rain falls on the just and the unjust", not calling you unjust but you understand what I'm saying.


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Bob Moore: Let me tell you about true ‘aberrent horror’.”

And then you go off about Sudan. I don’t care about Sudan or any other Muslim nation and how they treat their women. Is it disgusting, yes it is, but it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

And still you ignore the plight of your sister’s right here in Mohave County who suffer horrendous abuse. Why? Oh, wait, they’re “Christians!”


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“We all need to open our eyes and stand behind the Muslim women…”

I have to chuckle at our two local “experts” on saving Muslim women who do not care about women and girls here in Mohave County being subjected to some of the most aberrant horrors imaginable in the name of religion at Colorado City/Hildale.

“On Fox News last night…”

Remember FoX News is the only “news” organization to ever go to court and demand the right to lie about, distort and make up “news” stories. Why in the world anyone bothers to watch that lie-fest is beyond me.

“No matter what your individual views are everyone should be concerned with this practice coming to fruition within our country!”

Sharia Law is not “coming to fruition” here and be believe such is pathetic. But, once again, where is your concern about your sister’s right here in Mohave County who endure horrors in the name of a “Christian” religion?


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Trained Observer

Paganism? No, there was nada before God.
-----
Maybe "your" god but not other people's god, who by the way was a woman in many cases. The world does not revolve around any particular religion nor do people need to subscribe to any particular belief system. Religion needs to stay out of public schools no matter what form it takes.


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Bob Moore:

Let me tell you about true "aberrent horror".

A Sudanese court sentenced 27 year old Meriam Ibraham to flogging 100 times and than to be hanged.

Meriam has a muslim Father and a Christian mother, became a Christian under her Mother. Married to a Christian in a wheelchair, she has a child less than two year old and is 8 months pregnant.

When the Sudan government tried to force her to renounce Christianity she said she would not and she didn't commit apostasy so they imprisoned her and she is 8 months pregnant. As soon as her baby is born, she will be flogged 100 times for adultery first (they don't recognize her Christian marrige) and hanged.

It gets worse. They don't believe a Christian household is a proper place for her little son so he is being held in the cell with her and he is also suffering greatly.


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Linda Athens

pl...:

Christianity is completely worthless in our country?

Well, not exactly. Here's a good case in point.

You were just allowed to spew what I consider mostly remarks made by a person ill informed on the topic and completely clueless about what is obvious to many of the rest of us and that is that the Bible prophecies are coming true more now than ever before BECAUSE of Christianity.

Yes, Christianity is behind your First Amendment right to "spew" away. You wouldn't have been allowed to do that in other countries at the time of the writing of our Constitution


Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis McElyea Smith

WOW, Are you saying we should turn away from Israel? You can if you want to but I for one will not! Jesus is a Jew, the grandson of King David.
How can you talk of the Jews in such manner?
You realize, it was a wealthy Jewish businessman who helped win the Revolution, his money for ammo and supplies kept the soldiers fed and clothed!


Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014
Article comment by: pl .....

@Ms. Smith.....probably the most relevant Bible passage with regards to commentary concerning Israel, for me, is when Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives overlooking Jerusalem and wept. He said that he would have gathered them safely under his leadership, but that they wouldn't allow it. Then he made reference to the disasters that would follow. Nothing has changed in nearly 2000 years, other than those disasters having happened, and Jews primarily blaming and scheming against Christians with regards to those disasters. I think these comments should inform our views and behaviour towards Israel.

Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

@PL Pastor Hagee is the only Pastor I know of in today's world who doesn't sugar coat his sermons with PC and separation of church/state does not intimidate him. He also is huge on the greatness of God's forgiveness.
His church stands strong for Israel as we all should.
I haven't attended church for some time due to PC being more important than the actual word of God.

I am glad to the women I spoke of finally feeling comfortable and having the courage to forth against the belief of Sharia law and they need to know they can be supported and protected in this country for putting forth truths of this outrageous practice in what is suppose to a civilized world.
Our 1st Lady and her husband have had over 5 yrs. to take a stand on this issue and not until she stands there with " #Bring our girls back" (those kidnapped in Nigeria) has she done anything.
Instead OB has his head in sand saying "We are not and will never be at war with Islam",
How can that be when it's right here and become worse in middle east under his watch!

I totally agree the Viet Nam war was as far I'm concerned the Absolute worst cause ever!

As for monetary collapse, three trips to Canada in 90s, exchange for U.S. $ was great, now one U.S. $ gets you $1.03 on exchange. It takes $150.00 U.S. to get 100 euros.


Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014
Article comment by: pl .....

@Ms. Smith.....actually, I'll write and say anything that I must, to bring discourse up to par with the truths which 64 years of living, along with considerable deep thinking, requires. Christianity as it is practised in this country is generally to be regarded as absolutely worthless in some key, critical areas of human need. In fact, if it were only worthless, I could probably chalk that up to human frailty and stupidity, but it is accompanied by a fervent delusion that they are doing God's work that scares the crap out of me, and out of others here. From the mad scientist (my derogatory term) "Pastor" John Hagee to local clergy here and at past locations where I have lived, the church has been led by those who have ignored the wars based upon lies, criminal government surveillance and law enforcement actions, life-ruining abuses in the employment sector, even - in related fashion here - the truths behind the national economic meltdown. A very prominent pastor who died last year towards the end in one sermon, finally threw a very brief sop to the error of the Vietnam War - nearly 50 years after the fact! Whoo-hoo, as they say in some churches. The Jesus of the Bible surely has been concerned about all these things the whole time. Since churches are not, I will write.

Posted: Saturday, May 17, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“We all need to open our eyes and stand behind the Muslim women…”

I have to chuckle at our two local “experts” on saving Muslim women who do not care about women and girls here in Mohave County being subjected to some of the most aberrant horrors imaginable in the name of religion at Colorado City/Hildale.

“On Fox News last night…”

Remember FAUX News is the only “news” organization to ever court ot court and demand the right to lie about, distort and make up “news” stories. Why in the world anyone bothers to watch that lie-fest is beyond me.

“No matter what your individual views are everyone should be concerned with this practice coming to fruition within our country!”

Sharia Law is not “coming to fruition” here and be believe such is pathetic. But, once again, where is your concern about your sisters right here in Mohave County who endure horrors in the name of a “Christian” religion?


Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014
Article comment by: Amaryllis Smith

Everyone has their right to believe in God or not to.
The one thing everyone who cares about human rights and treatment of women however, needs to take off the blinders concerning the emergence of those in this country who want to be able to practice their Muslim faith including Sharia Law.
Instead of attacking one another over Christian belief, We all need to open our eyes and stand behind the Muslim women who have managed to escape from that lifestyle and are now coming forth to bring attention to the horrors of Sharia law they have endured.
Since 9-11 we have been warned over & over of those groups in this country who want to fight our constitution so they can continue in their practice of oppression of women on our soil.
Aayan Hiris Ali is one of these women who suffered through acts of Sharia Law and escaped to the U.S.. On Fox News last night were two other women, one whose father was killed fighting to get his family out of Cairo to the U.S. and his daughters out of control of Islam Sharia. These two will be back on Fox News tonight to do an extensive program on the perils of this issue.
No matter what your individual views are everyone should be concerned with this practice coming to fruition within our country!
Dinesh D' Souza has film "Honor Violence", under fire


Posted: Friday, May 16, 2014
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew


@Teege

“I had to take placement tests and scored three years advanced, so my parents began to enroll me in college courses at the age of 15”

I could go with the typical LOL response that “anyone can say anything on the internet and never provide proof,” but that would be mean.

It is interesting how someone so obviously gifted refuses to vote, salute the flag, participate in the pledge of allegiance, denigrates our military, refuses to consider servicing his nation and even refuses to protect the future of his family by wearing a motorcycle helmet. All choices, granted, but nonetheless curious for one so brilliant.



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