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home : opinion : opinion April 24, 2015


11/9/2012 6:00:00 AM
Letters: Progressive view takes the lead

In our Declaration of Independence, the second paragraph states: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...." Since Obama took office, one of his first statements was "America is no longer a Christian nation." It seems since then all references to Christianity have been "disallowed" or ruled against. This is most evident in our schools.

No longer is any form of prayer allowed in public schools, not even before a football game. Any symbol of God that a student may have is "outlawed" now by judges and school administrators. We must be tolerant of Islam, but Christianity is banned.

Is it any wonder that our students these days are lost without any sense of true values of morals, decency, respect for teachers, parents and elders?

Seems this goes back more than just one generation. The Progressive view is winning in America.

God, please help us keep our nation as it was meant to be.

Gisela Potokar

Kingman




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Reader Comments

Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012
Article comment by: Nice Chuckle

@Gisela

"Scholars of Arabic and Muslim scholars have confirmed that the inscription on it reads, "There is no God but Allah". "

Too Funny Gisela, since the vast majority of experts agree it is nothing except a raised design on the ring and not writing at all. WND and Fox are NOT your friends Gisela.

@T J

"An individual can pray by themselves in a public school. It just cant be lead by the school. And lori, prayer is allowed in ANY public area! "

You are correct, and further, reading a bible is allowed in school too, I know this from personal experience. Again, though, it cannot be lead by the school.

I also know from friends who are teachers throughout Northern Arizona that the pledge is still being said as well.


Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Does that not represent a conflict of interest or does it make it Hippocratic?”

Hippocratic? Can you please explain what in the heck you meant by that?


Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

….it was: Obama wear a gold ring since his college days, the same one used as his wedding ring. Scholars of Arabic and Muslim scholars have confirmed that the inscription on it reads, ‘There is no God but Allah’. Think about that one!”

Think about this one! That entire statement is bogus and has been debunked time and time again. Why do people insist upon posting such nonsense and why does the KDM allow them to do it? It’s not “opinion” it’s a flat out untruth.


Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012
Article comment by: Cherri Brown

Q: Did Obama say we "are no longer a Christian nation"?

A: He said we are no longer "just" a Christian nation, but a nation of many other faiths as well. A chain e-mail drops that key word and thus changes the meaning."

www.factcheck.org

The thing is, the United States never was just a Christian or even a Christian nation, as some would like to have others believe to fall in place with their theocratic perspective.

Quoting John Adams in his Treaty of Tripoli: "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)"

There are many who simply cannot separate their religious perspective from our republic governance and would hope through their persistence to persuade the changing of history to align with their views.

I believe the nation, our voting nation, has voted in favor of our republic democracy, and a nation of all citizens, not just some of the citizens.


Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2012
Article comment by: anonymous anonymous

I think 2013 will be a bad year for the GOP, fox and friends, this latest scandal of the republican general caught in a affair with his biographer, who is now under investigation by FBI for accessing his emails hints at something really big, anyone but me wonder why the fox and friends anchor claimed she had insider info on emails from middle east to USA during the consulate attack? Murdocks operatives in UK are facing criminal charges for hacking emails, phone records will fox and friends be embroiled in this latest scandal as recieving classified info? I guess time will tell!

Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Marla Kiriakidis

Where do any of you get the right to tell me what and who I should believe in? How dare anyone say how another should live. The Bible says that God gave us the right to choose. Yet many so called Christians would deny me that right. Do they think they are above God? Jesus said to pray alone. Yet some would force my child to pray in school, would force me to live by their beliefs and would punish any that disagree. I believe that religion is a private matter and like sex it should only be discussed in private with those of like mind. For all of you that try to push your religious beliefs on others I would remind you that you are not God and you are purposely ignoring his words.

And to those of you that repeat stories you've read on the Internet, remember that if you haven't witnessed it, it is hearsay and not admissible as fact. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour " Exodus 20:16. I can think of one woman who constantly writes of the horrible stories she's read about our President. Please explain to me how that's "being a good Christian".


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Em Lee

Do you people not realize that the Pilgrims came to this Country for FREEDOM? They fled the Catholic church because they were forcing people to believe and worship a certain way. Seems like many of you want to pring back the dark ages where people who believe differently than you are considered heretics and blasphemers and burned at the stake. My relationship with God is my business. I know what the Bible says and can prove mainstream Christianity is full of deciet and most of you never check for yourselves. The Bible is True and God never changes. I would love to have you come to the truth...but I would never force you or try to hurt you because you are so decieved in your beliefs. I pray for you like I pray for other sinners. As I hope others pray for me.

There is no Godliness in trying to force others to believe the way you do. Spread the gospel and then let the Holy Spirit work on them.....people can chose not to accept God. They can be what they want as long as its not criminal....Civil and Religious liberties are what made this Country. Get over yourselves!


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Gisela Potokar

Seems the Miner left out a sentence before "islam must be tolerated"............it was: Obama wear a gold ring since his college days, the same one used as his wedding ring. Scholars of Arabic and Muslim scholars have confirmed that the inscription on it reads, "There is no God but Allah".
Think about that one!

I do agree with Lori on Dr. Spock. In the 60's he was the "only child care expert " around, and we see the results! That part I ignored when raising our children, thank God!

Did anyone know that the Capitol Building, after it was finished, was also "rented out" on the weekends to various religions?


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: No Argument

@ V Stokes

Thank you. Then that leads to another question: Does that not represent a conflict of interest or does it make it Hippocratic?


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: mr. parker

Apparently, the fox hound has never been to Dearborn MI. Where are the crazy atheists on that one.

There was nothing wrong with a moment of silence in school where people could silently pray or meditate on their thoughts for the day.

Look at the demonrat convention when they tried to put God into the platform. The outrage! Poor Villalobos, he couldn't even get them to stop oinking to get a sham voice vote.


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Tj Denton

An individual can pray by themselves in a public school. It just cant be lead by the school. And lori, prayer is allowed in ANY public area! Its your 1st amendment right! You saying that it doesnt belong just shows how little you comprehend and support our constitution.

Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: V Stokes

@Please Explain
"With that said, can someone please explain how they can use our schools, (Yes, here in Kingman) for Church Services."

Because they rent them, just like any other group could if they wanted to and need the room. There have been several articles about it in the past year.


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: break out the books (and videos) .....

I think research indicates early America to have been a motley collection of intolerant religious groups which generally had to keep separate from each other, and were the foundations of the first U.S. states. Following a series of devastating wars on the European continent (Thirty Years War, War of the Spanish Succession, Great Northern War), some fellows with quite an agenda began organising under what some call the Illuminati banner, the goal being to unseat Europe's royalty and establish a new world order. The terminology used in America's declaration of Independence, carefully reviewed, fits right in with this agenda (and so do virtually all the symbols used on our currency). It is not Christian, and most of the leading Founding Fathers strongly distanced themselves, with careful research here, from Christianity's core beliefs. I only write this to be consistent with careful historical research, not to discourage anyone from working towards Christian goals today.

Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Uncle Anson

The real problems in our country are quite apparent: The problem is not intolerance it is tolerance. It is not action it is inaction.
It is not caring it is apathy.
It is not hard work it is an attitude of entitlement.
It is not the Republican or the Democrat
It is you.
It is not any religion or set of values
It is your lack of conviction.
It is not the rights of many
It it the perceived rights of one.
It is not being free
It is remaining free.
If you have time to complain you have time to do something about it.


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: David Gaither

@Anson's Nephew

Jeesh, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I pretty much agree with AN! There's just one issue that I have with AN's comment...that is that as Christians, we are not to TOLERATE other religions, else we are not faithful to Christ! We are only to love those who do not yet believe, that we may someday help them see the true savior. (Slightly different than tolerating their religion!)


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Lori Gabriel-Dane

Too funny! Karl Rove said yesterday on Fox News that Romney lost the election because "Obama suppressed voting rights."

Karl Rove has to make up excuses for Romney's loss because his Billionaire donors are quite upset with him because he promised them their money would buy the election.
Romney and other GOP candidates lost the election because of their radical far-right fringe ideologies, their constant lies and conspiracy theories, THEIR attempt to suppress the vote, and Romney's 47% remark. People willingly stood in line to vote for 7-10 hours to make sure that Romney nor other Tea/Repub candidates would not win. It had nothing at all to do with more than half the country wanting "stuff."


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Please Explain

I am not a religious person, nor do I understand it. I heard about religion being removed from school, the Pledge of Allegiance, Separation of Church and State. With that said, can someone please explain how they can use our schools, (Yes, here in Kingman) for Church Services.

Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Lori Gabriel-Dane

To Gisela Potokar:

Sorry, but praying belongs in Church and Sunday School, not in public schools. If you want your children to be allowed to pray in school, send them to a Lutheran or Catholic school - there's plenty of them out there.

You also wrote, "Is it any wonder that our students these days are lost without any sense of true values of morals, decency, respect for teachers, parents and elders?"

If students have no respect, values, decency, and seem lost, I blame the parents for that, not the lack of prayer in their lives. Learning good manners, values and morals begins at home. After reading some of the hate-filled letters and posts on these pages, I can see why some students are, as you claim, disrespectful. They learned to be this way from listening to their parents disrespectful and hateful rhetoric about government, cops, schools, our president, and everything in-between.

I also blame Dr. Spock, who claimed that spanking a child when they do something wrong "damages" them phychologically, and parents could now face abuse charges if they spank their children, so kids know there will be no consequence to their actions, no matter how bad they are. That is why they are not afraid of cops, teachers, or parents.

A good swat on the butt never "damaged" any one of us, but it made us not want to do anything wrong again, knowing we'd get spanked if we did. Today's kids get a "time-out" and "grounded" to their rooms with their cell phones, TV's, IBox, Internet, etc. That's not punishment - that's a luxury.

Now days, both parents work and spend little quality time with their children, leaving them free to do as they please. Like playing some of the most violent video games ever produced.

(300)


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“Since Obama took office, one of his first statements was ‘America is no longer a Christian nation.’”

It is always fascinating to see how words are taken out of context to make a point that is non-existent. First, nowhere in the line quoted re the Declaration of Independence does the word “Christian” appear. So that contention is incorrect.

Second, the oft out of context mis-quote of the presidents words diminishes any argument the poster is attempting to put forward. The elimination of just one word, dramatically alters what Obama said on 28 June 2006, to wit, “Given the diversity of America’s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer JUST a Christian nation we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”

In that statement Obama was pointing out that we are a nation comprised of many religions and even those who are non-religious and as such we need to respect each others beliefs.

“We must be tolerant of Islam, but Christianity is banned.”

That line is so …. well, deserves no response. I would, however, ask the poster to show exactly where in our nation Christianity has been officially banned? As to prayer in school – no one has been prevented from praying, privately, in school. In fact the Bible instructs you to do so, Mathew 6:6 “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

w/c274


Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: anonymous anonymous

This letter writer assumes God truly cares about governments, folks whining at their personal feelings not being satisfied in elections, etc.! I figure God who is not elected, does not spend on moment of his time worrying about the whining now coming from the right wing in America! It must be sad to post letters, post comments thinking your some mythical majority when fact is 32% of American electorate registers republican, 42% democrat remainder independent and minor parties, hence no one has any majority we are a plurality in our electorate much as in Arizona we are divided almost into 3rds! The Arizona vote has not even finished yet so anyone thinking they know how Arizona voted is mistaken!

Posted: Friday, November 9, 2012
Article comment by: The Fox Hound

You are absolutly right I'm so tired of having to say all those muslim prayers at every highschool football game. What's next seperation of church and state. Why can't we just let God run the country you don't even have to vote for him cause he's everywhere.


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