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home : opinion : opinion May 24, 2016


12/30/2012 6:01:00 AM
Editorial Column: Hit or myth with this gun column

Rich Thurlow
Editor


These are trying times for two popular liberal myths.

The first is the always-popular "Bush tax cuts for the rich." The obedient media picked up on the Democrats' untrue talking point, usually referring to it with the same six words, as if no one with an income of less that $1 million benefited from the cuts Bush pushed through in his first term.

But now we have a fiscal cliff that includes the expiration of the "tax cuts for the rich," and it turns out people earning in the vicinity of $40,000 a year are going to take home about $2,500 less.

You know, people like you and me.

That must be why no one is calling it the "Bush tax cuts for the rich" anymore.

The other myth had wording that was much less precise. The basic gist of it, though, was that it was crazy that all these gun shops were doing so well because Obama promised he wouldn't go and get all anti-gun on us.

That was true before Nov. 6. Guess who isn't running for re-election?

But I'm willing to look at that issue from another perspective. Back in October, the bride and I went shopping for her Christmas present. We settled on a pistol from one of Kingman's finer weapons emporiums, surrounded by customers who didn't have nice things to say about the president.

We felt right at home.

But certainly, I thought back then, the owners and employees of the store had mixed feelings about the upcoming election. If Obama wins, it's four more years of great business - at least until he wrecks the economy. But if Obama lost, business would certainly slow down.

At that point it was true Obama had done nothing to harm their business. It was also true many of the customers weren't fooled at all by Obama's assurances he had no interest in curtailing the right to bear arms.

Like gay marriage, Obama's position has "evolved." Suddenly he's willing to make our children safe with gun laws just as onerous as, say, Connecticut's. That enthusiasm was absent when a gunman opened fire in a Colorado movie theater in July - but that was before the election.

So while the fiscal cliff remains the hot topic, the Miner's opinion pages today will be dominated by gun talk.

I'll continue it here by defending one of my all-time favorite reporters, Ahron Sherman. Last week Ahron, no gun expert, did a story about the booming business our local gun stores are enjoying. I told him before he started the story that I wanted to make sure we got the definition of an assault weapon out there.

Ahron did as instructed and also faithfully reported that the gun shop owners were rapidly selling or were sold out of "assault" rifles. But the gun shop owners were using what politicians such as Diane Feinstein refer to as "assault" weapons, not the correct definition that Ahron included in the story.

This led to an assault by some on Ahron's reporting, with charges it was slanted and that he was stoking fears of people who didn't own guns.

The blame for the confusion rests with the guy writing this column. I'm the one who thought I knew you couldn't buy a fully automatic weapon, at least not before jumping through all sorts of hoops. It was my call to leave the reporting as it was, reporting that Ahron Sherman thought was correct because he was hearing it straight from the people who sell "assault" weapons.

Moving on, just for laughs we have the petition calling for the White House to be a gun-free zone. I don't know who came up with the idea, but I like the way they think.

I also think any Kingmanite with a little knowledge of local history has a ready answer to the question of why anyone would need a rifle capable of shooting 15 times without reloading. My first answer is always, "It's fun." I don't consider basic training as the best seven weeks of my life, but time on the range was a blast. If I could afford it, I wouldn't mind owning an M16 and firing a couple hundred rounds, some of it on full automatic.

The second answer is that bad guys don't always show up on your doorstep one at a time.

Finally, Attorney General Tom Horne has a plan to have one armed teacher or principal per school, trained by law enforcement. Our Sheriff Tom Sheahan has reportedly signed on in support, but he's not ready to go public, perhaps because he thinks the proposal needs some fine tuning.

I think there are flaws, but there is one thing about Horne's plan worth mentioning: If it's widely known someone is on campus ready to take on a would-be mass murderer, the would-be mass murderer will go elsewhere so he is assured of being in a "gun-free zone."

As a rule, these guys pick places where there won't be anyone around who is going to shoot back.

And that's no liberal myth.

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Reader Comments

Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Think Tank

TJ, thank you for your honesty. I am sorry to hear that you were threatened like that at a younger age. I would also like to point out that by your own admission you have never had to fire one round in self defense. I am happy you have not had to but the point I am illustrating is no one needs a magazine with more than 5 or 6 rounds. The only thing that is good for is not reloading. The only thing that is good for is being able to keep pulling the trigger faster.

Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Nice Chuckle

@Linda

"Used to be you could be a teacher and bring a personal Bible to be left out of sight in your drawer to be read on your own lunch hour. Try that these days."

Still can, I know of a few that do.

"Used to be the school ISSUED BIBLES TO THE STUDENTS AND TAUGHT THEM RIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE. Try THAT these days."

That was back before even you were born, try again.

"Used to be every young boy waited for the day he got his first BB Gun, shotgun and rifle. Now he will be reported to the government by his Dr. when he gets such things."

That is just not true, only a scare tactic and fear mongering brought up by your heroes Fox News, Beck, Limbaugh and WND. Try again.


Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: vock canyhon

why arm just one teacher. why not arm any instructor that is willing to take the training and carry! In fact why not pay some incentive pay to each teacher that is willing to do this! We have fire alarms, fire extingushers and fire drills, yet when was the last fire at a school?

I agree, perp's always look for the easiest victims. Let's take our schools off their radar!!!!


Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Thank Tank:

Ever hear...."and then they came for me?"

Used to be you could wear a chain with a cross on it around your neck to grammar school with no problem. Try that now days.

Used to be you could be a teacher and bring a personal Bible to be left out of sight in your drawer to be read on your own lunch hour. Try that these days.

Used to be the school ISSUED BIBLES TO THE STUDENTS AND TAUGHT THEM RIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE. Try THAT these days.

Used to be you could say God bless you when someone sneezed and not be told it was unconstitutional.

Used to be every young boy waited for the day he got his first BB Gun, shotgun and rifle. Now he will be reported to the government by his Dr. when he gets such things.

You refuse to see the elephant standing in front of you.


Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Tj Denton

Think tank, let me answer that for you, as an adult, i have had to use my gun once to protect myself, although i did not fire, my drawing down stopped the situation and the person fled. And as a juvenile, i was skateboarding by the junior high, some drug addict walked up and put a pistol to my head for no reason at all, just to scare a kid, and he dis it in front of witnesses and was never caught. Hope that answers your question.

Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Think Tank

Linda, you are being paranoid and fanatical. President Obama does not want to take away your guns. He has said he doesn't want to take away guns. The problem we have is when people like yourself don't address the actual issue and try to create an imaginary one. No one is looking for a perfect utopia. No one is saying you cant have a gun. What people are saying is that you should not be able to have the firepower to step outside of your house and mow down all your neighbors in less than 20 seconds.

Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Michael Betts:

Nothing like comparing apples and oranges.

How about tackling the Chicago deaths by guns Michael? Hit 500 recently for this year. One city. 500. Run by obama's best friend.

Want to guess why? Could it be guns in the hands of the BAD GUYS?

My family in Texas has guns. They tell ME Texas is saying, come into our state from the government and try to take anything legal away from us and you will be arrested. I saw one TX Congressman I believe he was last night on TV who says impeachment is absolutely an option if obama thinks he is going to use Executive Order to take anything away that is covered by our Constitution.

Exec Orders were intended for use in the Executive branch of government - never intended to be used in cases where WE THE PEOPLE and both sides of Congress should absolutely be part of the conversation.

For this bozo to do otherwise is simply a shade of Nazi Germany. I don't think bozo has any idea what he is up against.


Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Article comment by: Patrick W

The UK also has a violent crime rate three and a half times higher than the US . Which is quite amazing since most violent crime is concentrated in urban areas of populations greater than 250, 000 , and the US has six times as many cities with that population or greater .

The UK also had a mass shooting just two years ago . A British cabbie drove around shooting and killing twelve and wounding another twenty-five . His weapon of choice, a shotgun . Didn't they claim their gun ban was supposed to put an end to these sort of things ?

The UK is hardly the peaceful utopia that some make it out to be .


Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Article comment by: Think Tank

TJ, how many times have you been robbed? How many times have you had to pull out a gun to save your family? Heck, how many rounds have you fired that were not just for fun? I'm not saying these situations don't occur but that seems to be the immediate answer from gun owners when sensible gun control comes up.

Rich, how many times in your life have you had to mow down an angry mob? Better question, what was the angry mob at your door for? I know the paper is garbage but none of us are that upset over it. It may be "fun" to pull on a trigger and send bullets flying care free. I bet it is also fun to blow up a nuclear bomb or to fly a fighter jet right down Stockton Hill Rd. The thing is those things would endanger public safety. So while it may be a bummer that you have to reload after five shots it is better for everyone's interests that we don't allow large magazines.
WC 176


Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Article comment by: tj denton

okay michael betts, let me explain to you the difference between being armed and unarmed.

armed- you explain to a police officer why you shot the man trying to harm you and your family. then you go on with your life.

unarmed- a police officer and coroner conduct a thurough investigation on a homicide and the guy who did it gets out after 25 years, 12 1/2 on good behavior.

you give up your guns and the next time youre robbed, let me know how well the whole gun control stance worked for you.


Posted: Friday, January 11, 2013
Article comment by: Michael Betts

ok tj I was just showing the info that LA left out of her post in the article she used. Seems to be the way it works with her only use what makes her feel good and look right. So here goes for you. US gun murders 2009 9146. UK gun murders 2008[UK is slower then US in compiling numbers] 39 [39x5= 195] That's a fairly substantial difference . Even taking into account the difference in population that is 8951 more murders with guns about 50 times more I think. Nice try.

Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2013
Article comment by: tj denton

yeah michael betts, you left out the fact that the UK has a population of 64 million and the united states has a population of 330 million. you have to look at percentages, not numbers. it was a good try though, really, it was.


Posted: Wednesday, January 9, 2013
Article comment by: Michael Betts

UK outlawed guns and crime soared 40%. In 2011 all gun crimes in the UK,that's all crimes involving a gun were less then all gun murders in the USA. You left that fact out.

Posted: Tuesday, January 8, 2013
Article comment by: Michael Betts

Maybe we should use the National Guard in schools or the Marines. Columbine HS had a armed deputy sheriff on duty the day of the shootings there. He actually exchanged fire with Harris and missed both times he saw him. One way of dealing with this is immediate execution[Loughner and Holmes } Lougher who will cost the tax payers of Az. millions of $'s. Reality I think anyone who wants to own a gun or a whole arsenal should be allowed but should take responsibility if they injure or kill some one even by accident they should be executed within 24 hrs.. Actually on 2nd thought allow the crazy elected officials have their way and arm teachers. But when a teacher accidently kills a student (and if you think this will not happen your nuts)(Just think of the wonderful insurance problems with this looney idea) the officials who proposed this idiotic plan and passed it are executed.

Posted: Friday, January 4, 2013
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Everyone heard Piers Morgan's nightly rants on CNN against guns in America after the CT shootings. Threatening to go home to Britain, tens of thousands have signed petitions to send him off.

But look at what Piers ignored in Britain. In 1996, after a similar school shooting in Scotland, England banned guns, 160,000 law abiding Brits turned in their guns. Crime related gun violence jumped 40% in the next two years and has continued to soar at an alarming rate. A Kings College study in London has verified the increase.

I watched Morgan say to Gun Owners of America Director Larry Pratt who was a guest on his show, "You're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you?" No, but you are Piers. Try discussing the complexities and facts concerning gun control and Morgan's eyes glaze over.

Like Adam Lanza, the Dunblane Scotland massacre, done by Thomas Hamilton, 43 was a man on the local radar a very long time. The community knew of his significant mental health problems. Nothing was done.

A closet homosexual and serial child abuser who headed local scouting, parents complaints went unheeded. After the rampage where Hamilton killed 18 5 and 6 year olds at close range in the school gym, shot the defending teacher, wounded 15, further shot up the school, then killed himself, townspeople came down hard on local police's coverup.

They in turn sealed all records for 100 years, citing protecting the victims. The only penalty for Hamilton's sexual proclivities with the young boys of the area was being shunned by fellow townsmen and no longer allowed to run boys groups. This set him off.
.
Guns in Britain are now in the hands of the bad guy. Britains cops are unarmed mostly so Hamilton had no fear of one rushing in on him.


Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee Speaking

@Arizona Moderate

"A challenge - do a poll of city and county law enforcement. Ask them whether or not they prefer to investigate late night crimes when the owner's around the premises "packin"."

And after the poll do another of non-LEO citizens and ask them if they give a **** whether or not LEO approves. Remember, they are civil servents, not civil masters. If they disapprove of ordinary people having guns, under any circumstances, they really should quit. Sorry, but I am not going to disarm myself just because a Mohave County LEO is around.


Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee Speaking

@Ansons Nephew

"but also rest assured, Obama is not “GOING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS!”

According to Lori Hyphenated, he is not going to take "ALL" our guns. You both can't be right.So which fawning obama worshipper should we believe?


Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Article comment by: anonymous anonymous

Well sorry folks I just cannot seem to work up a sweat for the folks earning 6 digits in the $450,000 plus category as being victims, in need of my sympathy or concern! Sorry if their taxes go back to Cinton era rates of 39% plus so be it, no skin off my nose and I will not shed one tear for them, now them rich, non working folks like Romney paying 15% on their investment incomes haivng to pay 20% now just will not bother me one bit! As to payroll taxes going back to pre-2008 rates not the end of the world, they were temporarily cut to help simulate the economy, we will survive the doomsday theorists predicting the end of America can go sit in a time out corner with them Mayan Calender looney tunes for all I care!

Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

Ms Athens

“And on the death panels, I have several times put on here exactly where it is in obamacare.”

Nope, although you have been asked numerous times you have never provided where the supposed death panels exists in the ACA. And how could you since you have admitted numerous times that you have never read the ACA? Now, I will ask again that you provide the exact section of the ACA that deals with “death panels.”

“Obamacare doesn't want old people admitted to hospitals within 30 days of when they were just in because, exactly as the Dr on TV representing it, said.”

Still incorrect and it always will be. And who is this “Dr” and where did he appear?


Posted: Wednesday, January 2, 2013
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Nice try BM (Bob Moore) but no cigar:

Obamacare doesn't want old people admitted to hospitals within 30 days of when they were just in because, exactly as the Dr on TV representing it, said.

They want the elderly to find OTHER MEANS OF BEING TAKEN CARE OF SUCH AS FAMILY MEMBERS PROVIDING THEIR CARE RATHER THAN GOING TO THE HOSPITAL.

And on the death panels, I have several times put on here exactly where it is in obamacare.


Posted: Monday, December 31, 2012
Article comment by: Arizona Moderate

re: Sherman's story.

I thought the headline about "packin" was a little irresponsible, and implied that citizen justice is encouraged around here. Better that the owner was "packin" the guns into a safe at night so they weren't so accessible.

A challenge - do a poll of city and county law enforcement. Ask them whether or not they prefer to investigate late night crimes when the owner's around the premises "packin".


Posted: Monday, December 31, 2012
Article comment by: More Of The Same

More right wing swing from the "Editor"! I think I'll go pick me up an "Enquirer", they outta know the truth!

Posted: Monday, December 31, 2012
Article comment by: Anson's Nephew

“You see, under obamacare, if you are old, you cannot be in the hospital twice within a 30 day period without the hospital paying a big fine. They will, of course, discourage you from being admitted the second time to save money.”

Actually the program is designed to STOP hospitals from releasing patients who will have to be re-admitted because of on-going health concerns. The program is designed to stop hospital from scamming the system for re-admission charges.

“Like the obamacare death panels…,”

No such thing and you know it – and I will once again ask you to provide proof of this assertion by quoting the exact part of the ACA that covers “death panel”. The Death Panels currently exist only within the insurance agency.

“obamacare doesn't want to be paying all that extra money for old people that are just going to die anyway.”

Blatant falsehood.

“Oh wait! He would be an exPOTUS so he would have DIFFERENT insurance, right? BETTER insurance than the rest of us.”

You mean like the 30 days of intensive care Bush the First just recived at taxpayer expense?


Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012
Article comment by: 1930's, anyone... ?

there goes the vacation, new car, going out to eat, new clothes, etc. - there goes all the related jobs. Might be a boon to the Dollar stores, gun shops, used-everything outlets. Who says you can't go back in time ?

Posted: Sunday, December 30, 2012
Article comment by: Linda Athens

Great column Mr. Thurlow:

Off topic but still obama.

Watching "Morning Joe" recently, something I rarely do, they had an obamacare subject.

Showing an 83 year old woman in a hospital bed being questioned about being in the hospital twice in a 30 day period, she looked scared. You see, under obamacare, if you are old, you cannot be in the hospital twice within a 30 day period without the hospital paying a big fine. They will, of course, discourage you from being admitted the second time to save money.

The friendly Dr. Goebbles type woman Dr explained the elderly need to find others to take care of them at home or wherever when in need rather than going to the hospital.

I understand the type people who rush to the ER constantly for no good reason, etc. But it should be pointed out, the elderly have lived the longest, paid the most in and often their families are far away, friends dead.

Like the obamacare death panels, obamacare doesn't want to be paying all that extra money for old people that are just going to die anyway. I find this despicable. We have no respect for the unborn and we have no respect for the elderly anymore. I wish obama were an old man right now with a malady that sent him to the hospital....twice in a month. Oh wait! He would be an exPOTUS so he would have DIFFERENT insurance, right? BETTER insurance than the rest of us.

The bottom line, born in a different world, a more civil, I am not entitled to everything world, how many old people who know this will feel useless and in the way and opt to just stay home and possibly suffer or die rather than cause a problem?



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